Steve Kerber and Dan Madrzykowski of Underwriters Laboratories are the most famous guests we have had on Combustible. They both have been on the forefront of research into some of the fire service's most deeply held beliefs about how we fight fire. Wind driven fires. Positive pressure ventilation. Flow Path. Sound familiar?

During this episode we talk to them about

What you do when you don't get the results you were expecting
The nature of presenting "controversial" findings to a very traditional group of people
Why you go to Sweden or New Zealand to get a doctorate
Just what it means to be an Honorary Battalion Chief with FDNY
Why research matters to the fire service

And as always, we have a war story or two and then unleash our Pivot questions on them and get some truly surprising answers.